The bag debate gives packaging a pretty ugly face, even for radio

Wednesday 1 April 2009: The Today Programme, BBC Radio 4

John Humphrys Twenty minutes past seven: it’s time to consider – yet again – the pernicious blight that’s fallen on this green and pleasant land.
Sarah Montague (laughing) Your pet peeve, John…
JH And with good cause. We’re talking about the unacceptable face of packaging – pre-supposing it has an acceptable one, of course – the plastic bag. In the studio we have Ivor Nishu, of the Twitter About Litter campaign, and Joe Schmoe, the marketing director of Bags ‘r Us, the company that makes most of the wretched things. You want packaging to tidy up its act, Mr Nishu.
Ivor Nishu I do, John. I’m sure we all do. These bags are a present-day biblical plague. They consume vast quantities of oil to make. Their impact on carbon footprint is incalculable. And you just can’t get rid of them. If they’re not littering the streets, they end up in landfill where they’ll still be 100 years from now. We don’t need them. We don’t want them.
JH What do you say to that, Mr Schmoe?
Joe Schmoe Good morning John. Ivor. First, can I correct you about the litter…
IN (interrupting)… the rubbish, you mean.
JS (patiently) Plastics bags represent less than 1% of all litter on the streets…
IN (interrupting)… that doesn’t justify their existence…
JS (still patiently)… and to make them takes less energy than paper. To freight them around the country incurs less carbon footprint. Also…
IN … oh come off it.
JS (harassed) Also, they can carry 2,500 times their own weight. I’d say that was a pretty good return from a very small amount of material.
JH As if anyone would ever need them to. The point, surely, Mr Schmoe, is that regardless of what you say we can’t get rid of the blasted things.
IN (emotionally) And they’re a hazard to wildlife. They kill turtles. Are you prepared to have that on your conscience?
JS Well, I don’t think it’s the fault of the bag. Someone has to drop it in the ocean.
IN So not your problem then?
JS (pause) Well, hardly. We can’t be held accountable for what some people…
JH (interrupting) Oh I see. You’re entirely blameless are you? Where does accountability start and stop, Mr Schmoe?
IN At the balance sheet.
JS (pause) Now, hang on…
JH (interrupting)… I’m afraid we’re out of time, so we’ll have to leave you hanging there, Mr Schmoe.
SM (laughing) .. and to his own devices too, if I might say. Garry: sport.
Garry Richardson Sarah. Well, it looks like Manchester United has the championship in the bag – and nothing plastic about last night’s performance…

Des King is a freelance journalist specialising in packaging. He can be contacted by email at packagingnews.editorial@haymarket.com

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